7-16 Max Borders

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To me.

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Does the smell like, come with you? It’s gonna blind.

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My wife is here because she’d be like, who.

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You’re live.

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We’re alive right now.

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Excellent.

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Live here on the boat.

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We’re having a great time, by the way, here, joined by my buddy Wags.

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Join us right here live on the floor of Freedom Fest 2022.

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Max borders is with us.

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Max, great to have you with us.

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Thank you.

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Subversion Summit.

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And you’ve got a huge following here.

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You’ve also had some amazing crowds here.

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Yeah.

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Now you’re doing the subversion summit.

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I want to talk first.

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A lot of people at home may not know what subversive innovation is, so let’s talk about that first and then go from there.

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Liberation.

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Liberation through innovation.

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That’s right.

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The subversion is liberation.

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Really.

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It’s challenging power, right.

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Which today we all know we’ve got to do.

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Power is overwhelming, and it’s being destructive.

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Right.

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And we’ve got to push back against that power.

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That’s what subversion means.

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And we can sort of appeal to the patriotism of the founders in that regard.

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So what are some examples, like currently? Examples of pushing back on that power? One where they’ve done it successfully and how they did it, and who needs to be pushed back against? Well, there’s a lot there are some great examples.

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I think the most pronounced example that we’re seeing unfold right now is that people are completely fed up with the government schools.

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The government schools are inculcating people’s children with crazy ideas.

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They don’t like that.

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But also, the pedagogy, the learning styles, and the learning methods are just not keeping up.

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We keep dumping more money into the public schools, and what do they do? They do the same thing they’ve always done and layer on top of that administrative class that is absolutely worthless.

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So subversive innovation says somebody can come along and compete with free.

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The government schools are obviously not free, but they are subsidized by the state and offered for free to anyone who wants to come.

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Right.

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But people are so fed up with what they’re seeing in the performance of the schools and the inculcating of their kids that there are all these efforts in innovation and entrepreneurship that are bringing new educational styles, online learning, private schools, homeschooling.

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All of this is exploding right now.

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And that is a way that we make social change, not necessarily in politics.

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Right? Okay.

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So I know you’re not a big fan of politics, but at the end of the day, a lot of this comes down to politics.

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You got to push back against local school boards.

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You got to push back against local county supervisors, county clerks, things like that.

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Absolutely.

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What are you seeing? And then I want to get and talk with Wags.

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Listen to you guys talk about the financial side of this too, because that’s a big thing, too, regulatory and financial.

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But on the school side, let’s take that for instance, and local regulations and that type of thing.

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Sure.

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How do people who aren’t normally involved, that are frustrated, how do they get involved and how do they push back? Yeah.

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So I want to make it clear I’m not a fan of politics in that it’s so hard to do what you guys are talking about.

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Right.

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But people tend to think of change in the world as through powerful institutions right.

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Of panels.

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Right.

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The three P’s, politics, policy, and punditry.

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Those tend to, like, write a letter to the editor.

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That’s punditry policy.

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Let’s craft a new policy.

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You get to all the policy analyst nerds.

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Try to think, how can we change the rules to make things better? And of course, politics is all the glad handing politicians, and we need them.

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They’re a necessary evil for social change.

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But what I want to bring to bear is that this is not a neither nor, it’s a yes.

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And so at minimum, you can go out and cry your tear drop in the ocean and expect the tide to turn every four years with elections, but that’s the minimum standard.

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I am trying to get the entrepreneurs and innovators of the world to bring their prowess, to bring their energy and their talents to subversive innovation.

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And that is pushing bypass the system as it is.

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That’s exactly right.

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To the extent you can sometimes that’s going to be an illegal gray area.

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Right? That’s true.

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When you say illegal gray, what areas are you talking about? That could be in a legal gray area.

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Okay, great example.

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The idea in 2012 was that it was dangerous to hit your ride, and it was probably illegal in a lot of states.

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Right.

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2012, this crazy guy named Travis Kalanick comes along and says, what if we use GPS and networking technology to create a relationship between drivers and passengers, to use the idle capital of cars, people’s cars? And all of a sudden, Uber existed when it never existed before.

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And the taxi cartels had a lock on this kind of stuff.

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And that’s government sponsored cartel year was bad.

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You could only get a cab at the airport.

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They fought it forever.

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Well, and there’s going to be sometimes there’s going to be political fights associated with subversive innovation.

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But we need, in this day and age, with a looming economic crisis and power accreting and getting more and more top heavy among the elites and the bureaucrats, we need people who are confident and steadfast in their innovation and entrepreneurship.

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Despite that despite that, they need to act as if and the innovation almost needs to happen first.

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So it forces the hand of government.

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That’s right.

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Because when you because the traditional channels aren’t working.

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Yeah.

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And when you can get rapid constituencies around the value you create in the new system and you attract people en masse like crazy, it is really hard politically at that point to take that value back from those people, they’re going to be mad as hornets.

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I have to ask, because Wags, you deal with huge companies, huge, big corporations, all the way down to small business guys like us.

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Where do you see the opportunity to push back and to really break some new ground? Kind of like Uber did.

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Where you’ve seen this anywhere that you see an overreach of power so strangleholds on all sorts of different organizations.

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When we think about politics, we always think president, right? Maybe we think governor.

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Right.

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But we have to actually look closer to home.

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The most restrictive prohibitive laws and regulations and rules that we live by are in our stinking homeowners association.

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Right.

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And Arizona is rife with them.

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That’s where I’m from.

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So the opportunity is everywhere.

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If we just look in our immediate circle and look at the things that we have to do in our lives every day, that’s super inefficient.

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So one of the toughest things in Arizona is in the summer.

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It’s so yeah, right.

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So in New York, people don’t have cars.

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They walk to the corner, right, in the sweltering heat.

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But us, we drive to the end of the block to pick up our kids, right? They don’t want to drive to my grocery store.

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I can order them.

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Think about now I have these delivery services to bring me anything.

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I got a bandaid.

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I got a guy.

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There’s another angle to this is really interesting that you guys are calling to mind.

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For me, your home state currently is one of the destination areas, and so is mine.

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Tennessee.

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Texas.

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Right.

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Those are two states that are the subversive.

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Innovation and entrepreneurship are two facets of this.

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But another way to subvert the powerful is through voting with your boat or voting with your feet.

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Right.

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So you live in a state that relatively speaking, compared to your neighbor, California, right.

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You say, God, okay, guys, come on over.

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Texas has taken them to so all of these people who are fed up with California progressive dreaming are voting with their feet and their Hondas and whatever.

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Yeah.

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We have a significant expatriation to Arizona.

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That’s right.

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That is another mechanism because eventually they’re going to bleed so many companies and so many good people that they’re going to have to start changing their way.

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Yeah.

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Your walk and your wallet every single day.

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I hate to do this.

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I hate to wrap it up because I love having you on here with us.

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Can you come back again sometime and hang out with us? I’d be delighted.

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I want to go into more depth.

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Max Borders, executive director of Social Evolution.

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Where do people find you socialevolution.com? You can find me there.

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You can also find me on social media, Twitter and so on.

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He’s got some amazing TikTok dances.

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We need to do one together.

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My kids are trying to get me to do that.

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Oh, goodness.

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Max Borders.

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Thank you.

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So much for being here.

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And thank you also for what you do.

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We’re a Freedom Fest.

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You’re all about freedom.

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Yes, sir.

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Leading the choir.

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Charge.

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This is Freedom Fest 2022, and we’re live from the floor of Freedom Fest.

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Lots of things going on here.

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Lots more great guests coming up in just a little while.

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And also a lot of things happening right in there on the main stage.